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Coolant Temperature Sensor


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#21 sifaan

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 11:27 AM

have you got access to diagnostic tools with live data if so go into the live data side and see how quick the engine temperature is rising also does the temperature jump up when you put the air con on. If not then your first action is to change the temperature switch and/or the thermostat.Do you have the parts available out there.

garage has lexia; I booked a time slot for thursday morning and can get it on the lexia then.
obviously I have never done this before and probably garage hasn't either, so if you can explain a bit more what I should be looking for it would be appreciated.
(e.g. should I let the engine cool down first? should I do it parked with transmission on P/N, or driving around? should I look to log the temp. reading against time? etc)

temp sensor 1338.A7 and thermostat and 1338.A0 are available in Sri Lanka (20~25 pounds each); generally if the part is to be found on a pug then the part is available in Sri Lanka. although often it's proved cheaper to get it hand carried from UK.

thanks
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#22 sifaan

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 04:30 PM

a few more points;

I will probably be able to borrow a digital thermometer (contact type, not infra red) for the diagnostics. any suggestions where to test? the radiator inlet hose (outside temp!) could be one easily accessible place, but what about someplace on the engine that would be a suitable proxy for the coolant temp?

I also wondered about a comparison with the engine oil temp guage (if the engine was overheating, shouldn't the oil also heat up?), but unfortunately that (and the level sensor) are no longer working. they both used to work, then the got to the level of working half the time (but it made up it's mind during switch-on, and AFAIK didn't change it's mind until restarted), and recently doesn't work at all. however I check oil on dipstick at least weekly and the level is fine.
could this be another busted sensor/s? what sensor/s should I be looking at (haynes only refers to an oil level sensor, not a temp. sensor), service.citroen.com has an oil level probe 1131.E5; does that also measure the temp?
or could it be that the BSI/wiring is acting funny (please also see other issue here)

thanks a lot!
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#23 coastline taxis

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 05:23 PM

Ok then the fuse box burnt out do you no what caused it. What i would do first is put all your faults under 1 topic because without knowing the full facts youl get wrong and costly answers. In view of the previous fuse box fault you need to start and check all the wires. if you can get hold of the pin data this will make it a lot easier for you. Then start testing the wires. Also your other posting says you are thinking of doing a update on the ecu/bsi i would get your car running correctly 1st otherwise you will just be adding to you problems. if you cant get the pin date then each wire has its own number and can be traced that way from the component e.g coolant sensor wire is 123 (not the actual number) then on one of the plugs in the ecu and fuse box will be a wire with 123 written on it test with a multimeter on both ends to se if you have continuity also check resistence
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#24 paul.h

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 09:58 PM

Sifaan,
I had a quick look back at your earlier posts and you appear to have/had problems with the windows (shutters) not part opening off the key fob and also possibly the speedo/rev counter since you asked Coastline for the stepper motors. I have gathered your car is a 2.0 petrol, automatic, mark 1 C5, not sure of the year of manufacture (must be 2001 to 2004), mileage must be around 80k for the timing belt to need replacing, there has been a fire at some point (fuse box burnt out) but with all the problems if this was in the UK they would cost more than the car is worth to repair and it would simply be scrapped unless there is access to low cost parts and labour. In the UK there are lots of C5s for sale at low prices and with labour costs of around 50 to 80 an hour your car may not be viable. What condition was the car in when you got it, the list of problems Coastline has asked for should give us a clearer picture and let us help you best we can. You have not mentioned any problems with the auto box yet but they seem to not be reliable based on some posts on this forum. Maybe I am missing something, but are cars in Sri Lanka difficult or expensive to get ? It is a pity you are having these problems since the C5 is a good car.

The oil level sensor also measures the temperature and should have 3 wires to it. The oil temperature on our car, 2004 vtr 2.2 hdi bears no resemblance or movement relative to the coolant temperature but then it has never gone to high temperature.
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#25 sifaan

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:20 AM

Sifaan,
I had a quick look back at your earlier posts and you appear to have/had problems with the windows (shutters) not part opening off the key fob and also possibly the speedo/rev counter since you asked Coastline for the stepper motors. I have gathered your car is a 2.0 petrol, automatic, mark 1 C5, not sure of the year of manufacture (must be 2001 to 2004), mileage must be around 80k for the timing belt to need replacing, there has been a fire at some point (fuse box burnt out)
What condition was the car in when you got it, the list of problems Coastline has asked for should give us a clearer picture and let us help you best we can. You have not mentioned any problems with the auto box yet but they seem to not be reliable based on some posts on this forum.

it's a late 2002 car; has ~90k kms (in Sri Lanka we use km for distance!) but due to our conditions timing belt changes are actually recommended earlier than UK so actually it was overdue on the car. the fusebox had burned out due to an electrical fire (battery terminal not fixed properly -> spark -> fire). also the heat shield under the bonnet was replaced and the burnt wires repaired (seems to have been some guesswork with this as subsequently discovered)
the AL4 box had been replaced under warranty (at the agent) seems to be fine now.

when buying the car the agent identified some issues, and we discounted the cost of those against the purchase; these included:
  • flushing and refilling LDS (some absolute idiot had topped it up with ATF... said idiot was an ex-mechanic of the agent who had gone down the alcohol road)
  • replace 1 rear gas sphere, both rear suspension cylinders, both front leak back hoses
  • replace both lower arm ball joints
  • replace front brake pads
  • replace timing belt + water pump
  • power steering pump (it was leaking)
  • flush/replace brake fluid (no history of having it done in the last 2 years)
  • injector cleaning (using 3M additive)
  • replace spark plugs
  • replace 2 tyres (worn out)
  • speedometer (it's just the stepper motor; currently using the tacho motor for the speedo)

subsequently appeared/discovered and fixed
  • engine mounts (1806.52 link right and 1844.92 mounting bracket right)
  • drive belt (came off due to leak from the PAS pump before it could be replaced)
  • crank pulley (damper broken) and drive belt tensioner (wasn't tensioning anymore)
  • A/C compressor clutch (the coil was rewired and baked in)
  • front brake discs (there had been a crack that had been repaired!)
  • front brake caliper (getting down the repair kit and pistons; binding was taking place and the hand brake had been disconnected as a workaround. probably this binding was what had caused the crack; also the old brake pads had unbalanced wear)
  • wiring fault in headlights (it was the fogs that were getting turned on, not the dipped beam) / reverse lights (there was ~8V voltage even when the lights were supposed to be off)
  • washer pump failure (not fully fixed, as detailed in other post). our bad for not checking this specifically.
  • starter motor solenoid (contacts worn)
  • fuel pump (was getting very iffy; tended to need to be tapped several times in the morning before it would start up). morning starting is still iffy. still confused as to whether I have the correct pump or not. Please see this.
  • Replaced front suspension brackets (it was rather expensive that the agent did not discover this first time around) + rebound stop + cylinder boot
  • Replaced Com2000 (the airbag fault message pre-existed; agent told us not to wory about it, and we didn't know it possibly meant an expensive com2000 replacement. subsequently the horn stopped working which is quite a dangerous situation!). we hand't checked the wiper washers.

also, less critically:
  • the shutter function on the small button on the remote fixed itself, I don't know how.
  • rear off-side passenger door got stuck; the thumping-while-unlocking trick worked.

discovered but no solution yet:
  • the agents say the lexia reports a fault code on the MAP sensor (and the car has cut out once or twice, but not recently); they've tried cleaning the MAP, and even tested with a MAP off another car, but the fault keeps reappearing. they're take on it is that it's likely a wiring error. one of the options discussed was getting an used wiring harness from a breaker (in UK)... would this be feasible (would probably work out cheaper than individually diagnosing/fixing wires)? if so, what harness should I be looking at getting?
    for the lights, washer, etc. it seems the main harness (6566.XW) but for the engine sensors I think it's the engine harness (part 6558.21 or .HZ or .NC depending on what I've got). for some reason breakers seem very reluctant to give out VINs of the cars they're breaking so it's going to be a challenge to find the right part :S
  • the oil level/temp issue. could be the sensor or the wiring...

if this was in the UK they would cost more than the car is worth to repair and it would simply be scrapped unless there is access to low cost parts and labour. In the UK there are lots of C5s for sale at low prices and with labour costs of around 50 to 80 an hour your car may not be viable. Maybe I am missing something, but are cars in Sri Lanka difficult or expensive to get ? It is a pity you are having these problems since the C5 is a good car.

Cars in Sri Lanka are very expensive due to the tax structure; excise duties were reduced earlier this year and some other taxes/depreciation mechanisms will reduce from next year; but still we're looking at ~200% tax on CIF prices on a petrol car with a 2.0 liter engine and much more for diesels.
just to give an indication, a 406 D9 executive with about 100k kms on the meter would cost about 10,000 pounds. and even that's because european cars have a lower 2nd hand value. for a Corolla 110 (probably 3-4 years older, smaller engine, much less features, more mileage) the price would be similar.
labour is not too bad, e.g. even at the agents it cost 16 pounds to replace brake discs; 15 pounds to replace com2000. at other garages it would be cheaper so they are an option for things not connected to the hydractive suspension.
there's about 40% tax on spare parts; so that's why it's usually cheaper to get stuff from UK; but there are smuggled parts as well (for only slightly less than those who import clean) and occassionally the price difference is so marginal that it's better to get it locally.

The oil level sensor also measures the temperature and should have 3 wires to it. The oil temperature on our car, 2004 vtr 2.2 hdi bears no resemblance or movement relative to the coolant temperature but then it has never gone to high temperature.

ok, thanks.
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#26 sifaan

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:25 AM

In view of the previous fuse box fault you need to start and check all the wires. if you can get hold of the pin data this will make it a lot easier for you. Then start testing the wires. Also your other posting says you are thinking of doing a update on the ecu/bsi i would get your car running correctly 1st otherwise you will just be adding to you problems. if you cant get the pin date then each wire has its own number and can be traced that way from the component e.g coolant sensor wire is 123 (not the actual number) then on one of the plugs in the ecu and fuse box will be a wire with 123 written on it test with a multimeter on both ends to se if you have continuity also check resistence


should the agents have the pin data (I'm guessing that citroen should provide them with it)?
tracing the wires from the numbers might be tricky because that's probably on the part that was damaged by the fire but I'll talk to the agents about this when I go in for the diagnostics tomorrow... is it still worth to watch the live data and try to correlate with physical temperatures? at least we might discover the engine is not really overheating - and hence I could keep using the car while trying to fix the issues (e.g. locate a harness).
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#27 coastline taxis

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 06:19 AM

Whats your engine code sifaan and would any parts need posting to sri lanka
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#28 sifaan

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 06:49 AM

Whats your engine code sifaan and would any parts need posting to sri lanka

engine code is DCRFNF
currently what I try to do with the parts is to get somebody travelling from UK to hand carry it (which means I'm not quite in control of when I can get the parts down); parts by post can result in taxes so generally try to avoid that... did you have some idea in mind?
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#29 coastline taxis

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 08:07 AM

Ive got a 2001 2 litre hpi that were breaking and it has a good wiring harness on it. the cooling system was fine on it with no probs at all. was thinking of getting the harness to you. How bad was the damage to the fuse box and surrounding area was the ecu wiring damaged. And just a daft one have you checked the earth around were the fire was
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#30 sifaan

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 08:22 AM

Ive got a 2001 2 litre hpi that were breaking and it has a good wiring harness on it. the cooling system was fine on it with no probs at all. was thinking of getting the harness to you. How bad was the damage to the fuse box and surrounding area was the ecu wiring damaged. And just a daft one have you checked the earth around were the fire was

that would be great... are the harnesses the same for HPI and indirect injection engines? also citroen site lists 3 engine harnesses and I don't know which of those I should be looking for. will try to see if there's a tag number visible on it.
if it would work, I can see if there is someone who can hand carry it (would also depend on weight/size) or otherwise go for the postage option.

i haven't specifically checked on the earth but I'll ask the garage; should I be looking for a good connection to the body?
Will also get some pics of the area to show the current status... I'm not sure how badly the fuse box was damaged, only that it was replaced; also I know some wiring was repaired but not sure if it related to the ecu... however as garage things the wiring repairs maybe responsible for the MAP sensor fault then maybe something in the area was affected.

thanks
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#31 coastline taxis

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 08:33 AM

ok then im back at work on saturday so il pm you the vin number of the car and we can take it from there if there compatable
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#32 sifaan

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 01:36 PM

ok, here's an update after taking the car in today.

first off, the "coolant leak check" job was incompetent to say the least. all they had done was bleed the system. today when the regular (i.e. citroen trained, although that's not really relevant; just that he's more competent!) mechanic looked at it he could see evidence of a leak at the radiator top - turned out the connecter where the inlet hose connects is cracked. it's made of plastic; and plastic radiator tops in Sri Lanka give trouble eventually. luckily it won't cost too much to get a replacement copper top made.

of course it still doesn't explain why the problem only appeared about a month back, and at least 3 weeks after any work related to the cooling system (replacing water pump). but what may have happened is that some glue or something was used to "fix" the leak and it lasted until now. given how other "maintenance" has been carried out on the vehicle, I wouldn't be too surprised!

needless to say didn't bother with any diagnostics, as the overheating may be purely a result of the leak, so I'll get the leak fixed and see if the problem reappears.

however, there are still wiring related issues (in addition to those described before, I also found that the front washer switch turns on the offside fog light briefly!). I took some pics:
overview (you can even see one wire that isn't connected)
close up of the "repaired wires"
wiring leading to the ECU (there has been some repair work there as well)

if I can get a replacement main harness that would be the preferred choice rather than having to sort these out 1 by 1 :S
coastline, the tag number is 96 111 412 80, does it match what you've got?
(or alternately, I'll look up the part number when you send me the VIN)
edit: according to citroen, the tag for main harness should be 9649020380; not sure what the number 9611141280 was for...
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#33 c.messer1

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:49 PM

Hi coolant temperature warning kept coming on with the STOP light too.Gauge a bit erratic but after a short distance every thing seemed normal. I visited the local Citroen dealer who said it sounds like the sensor �92 fitted or �9 for the part opted for the part. I have located the sensor (green) managed to get the cable connector off but can anyone explain how to get the sensor out I have twisted pulled etc by hand but to no avail am i missing something?

Hi there maybe some one can help me out please. I have had the same problem with my c8 along with anti pollution faults and catalytic converter faults. I have recently changed my catalytic converter and all is fine apart from this coolant temperature and stop light coming on intermittently? I have replaced the thermostat and that hasn't solved the problem so am going to try and replace the temperature sensor, but i can seem to find it? does anybody know where it is on a c8. 

Its the green sensor 1338A7

 

Many thanks Chris


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#34 paul.h

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 04:09 PM

Welcome to the forum,

 

which engine is on the C8 ?


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