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Turbo Replacement & Broken Rocker


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#1 heraldsteve

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 06:31 AM

It would seem the turbo on my 2006 2 litre Relay has blown according to the Green Flag engineer. Has anyone got any experience of changing these? I'm pretty competent and have all the tools I'm likely to need but I've never changed a turbo before. I haven't looked at it yet but my main concern is if this be done with the engine in situ or has the engine got to come out?
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#2 paul.h

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:29 AM

If I have got the right engine, it has a book time of about 3 hours and is done from underneath. The following is copied from the Citroen service book procedures for a Relay 2, 2.0 hdi:

 

1. Removing
ESSENTIAL : Respect the safety and cleanliness recommendations that are specific to high pressure diesel injection (HDi) engines.
ESSENTIAL : Do not separate the pressure regulation valve from the turbocharger or slacken its fixings.
 
 
Disconnect the battery negative terminal.
Remove :
  • The exhaust pipe
  • The turbocharger inlet duct
  • The turbocharger outlet duct
  • The bracket (between turbo and exhaust)
Uncouple :
  • The turbocharger oil supply pipe  (on the engine)
  • The turbocharger oil return pipe (on the engine)
Remove the EGR valve (see the relevant operation).
CAUTION : Close the lubrication ducts and the oil return ducts on the turbocharger and the engine.
Remove :
  • The fixing nuts of the exhaust manifold
  • The spacers
  • The exhaust-turbocharger manifold assembly
Separate the turbocharger from the exhaust manifold.
Remove :
  • The turbocharger
  • The exhaust manifold
2. Refitting
ESSENTIAL : If the turbocompressor fixing studs have been removed, refit them coated with LOCTITE FRENETANCH.
Fit the turbocharger.
Couple the turbocharger to the exhaust manifold.
N.B. : If difficulties are experienced, direct the water inlet housing pipe clip downwards.
Proceed in the reverse order to removal.
CAUTION : Check that there are no foreign bodies in the air ducts.
Reconnect the battery negative terminal.


#3 heraldsteve

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:01 PM

Thank you Paul. I remember you helped me out previously with my Berlingo so I owe you big time 👍
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#4 heraldsteve

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 01:44 PM

I've made a start but got rained off. I've come a cropper though trying to undo the manifold as I can't access the nuts from the top or from below. I think I might have to try removing the engine mounts to see if tipping it forward gives me more access. I just hope I don't need to remove the engine. I wouldn't mind so much if I was 100% sure it's the turbo that's gone.
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#5 paul.h

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:46 PM

I had a turbo fail on a petrol Saab on the M6 at Penrith. For a few months there was smoke from the exhaust when starting up and when accelerating but on the M6 it got a bit noisy and on the slip road the car was surrounded by smoke so the RAC recovered the car. To check a worn turbo there might be play in the rotor due to the worn bearings. If it is really bad the rotor can break up and put bits in the engine.



#6 heraldsteve

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:56 PM

Thanks Paul. Mine failed when climbing a hill. There was a sudden loss of power and loads of dark grey/black smoke. On tickover it sounds very odd, almost like something blowing. I thought at first an injector might have blown but they all look ok. I'm now wondering if it might not be the turbo but the EGR which has failed. Once I've identified the problem I will let you know (hopefully tomorrow if the rain holds off).
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#7 heraldsteve

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:19 PM

Well I didn't get very far today as each time I started work the skies opened. However I have discovered that the exhaust is exiting via the inlet side of the turbo!

I can only assume the turbo casing has broken or the seals have failed thereby allowing exhaust gases to escape into the inlet chamber. I've never heard of this before but nothing totally surprises me anymore.

I hope the weather is better tomorrow so I can try to get to the bottom of this.

Edited by heraldsteve, 02 May 2019 - 06:20 PM.

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#8 heraldsteve

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 09:09 AM

I was talking b@@@@cks in that last update! It isn't blowing gasses out as I first thought but sucking air in. I still don't understand why the loud thump-thump-thump sound as it's drawing air. The air intake is so powerful that if I put my hand over the air inlet them vacuum causes the large rubber hose to collapse - and that's only on tickover!

Oh well, I'll by trying again today to remove the turbo even though I can't see how it would cause the loud intake noises. If anyone has any thoughts on this I would appreciate hearing them as I'm baffled.
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#9 paul.h

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 10:06 AM

The vacuum will be from the pistons going down and sucking in air so should be normal. I do not know about the thumping noise though but a search on turbo thumping nose suggested it could be a worn rocker so a valve is not opening - have a read of this as an example https://fordtransit....hp?f=5&t=139627.

 

If it is a worn rocker then the turbo might be ok.



#10 heraldsteve

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 11:27 AM

Thanks Paul. That does sound like the same fault. Funnily enough I've been looking at it again this morning and I had come to the same conclusion - knacked valve. So this afternoon I'll be removing the rocker cover and looking for anything obvious. I haven't got a compression tester for a diesel otherwise that would habe told me with a lot less effort where the problem might lie.

Edited by heraldsteve, 04 May 2019 - 11:30 AM.

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#11 heraldsteve

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:55 AM

Well I got the head off yesterday and discovered a broken rocker. There are no marks on the piston so I don't think there's been any contact. Today's task is taking a closer look at the valves for obvious damage.
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#12 heraldsteve

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 12:10 PM

No piston or valve damage which is a bit odd as I have no idea why a rocker would fail. I've also been able confirm the turbo has slight play so I have to replace that too 😞
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#13 paul.h

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:53 PM

Good job you checked the rockers, otherwise you would have replaced the turbo and still had a problem. There are places that repair turbos and it might be worth getting one to check yours in case it still has a lot of life left, unless you can get one cheaply.



#14 heraldsteve

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 05:04 PM

A new one is £410 or a recon for around £320. There is a local company offering turbo repairs so I will probably drop it off for thrir opinion. To be honest I'm more concerned about quality than cost as it's been a major getting it off. If I go with the above prices I will have the new one as I'll have more confidence in that.

It's going to cost a tidy penny by the time I've bought everything I need but it's a good campervan overall so it's worth doing despite it's age.
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#15 heraldsteve

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 07:09 PM

Well I'm on the last leg of my rebuild (head off and turbo replaced) but I've been stymied by the water temperature sensor. I think I must have inadvertently dislodged it when trying to disconnect the electrical connector. There appears to be no way to fix it back in position, unless it's meant to be glued in?

The service.citroen diagrams show it as a separate item. Am I being stupid and missing something obvious?

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#16 paul.h

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 08:50 PM

The sensor part 9 is held in place by the clip part 11 which slides in the slots. The seal 10 prevents leaks.



#17 heraldsteve

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 08:54 PM

Thanks yet again Paul. I wss just about to update my post as I hsd come to that same conclusion. I don't know what happened to my clip but tomorrow I'll check it's not still in the housing.
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#18 heraldsteve

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 06:35 PM

You must be getting fed up with me! I've now reassembled the engine but it won't start. It's not even trying to run. I thought at first it was air in the fuel lines but after several attempts it still won't go even though there is a dribble of fuel if I crack open an injector inlet.

I'm now wondering if having the battery disconnected for several days has caused a problem with the immobiliser not recognising the key. Is this possible and if so how do I reset it?

The only thing I can see that might cause a problem is that I can't find a home for one of the control wire connectors. From onr loom I have a connector to the alternator, one to the fuel pump, one to the starter motor, one to the sump (low oil level?), one just above the oil filter (oil pressure) and one to the block (not sure what this one does) and one seemingly going nowhere that I can see. I'm sure it was plugged in previously as the connector looks very clean. It's too short to go very far but I still can't spot it. Any suggestions where this one should go?

Sorry to ask two questions in one post but thought they might be related.
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#19 paul.h

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:01 PM

If the connector goes to the crankshaft speed sensor that would prevent it starting. The sensor could be on top of the bell housing. If you look at the parts diagrams find the sensors under Mechanical, Air and Fuel Supply, INJ calculator sensor.



#20 heraldsteve

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 05:51 AM

The crankshaft and camshaft sensors are both connected. The plug I'm puzzling over can only go somewhere down by the diesel pump, alternator, starter motor or lower sump connections as it's too short to reach elsewhere.

I will try again today to find it - sometimes you just need a few hours away - it has to go somewhere.
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