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Berlingo Diesel Engine Problem


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#1 heraldsteve

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 07:04 AM

I've had occasional misfiring issues with my 2005 1.9 diesel Berlingo van which would eventually clear but I've never really found the cause. So when it started again recently I wasn't too concerned but over a few days it's got worse and worse until it is now undriveable.

When it's not misfiring it runs like a dream and uses no oil. When it misfires it starts with the odd stutter but eventually it gets worse and it's like it's running on three cylinders with loss of power and lots of black smoke. It's now got so bad it's like it's on two or less cylinders. It will start ok but will only drive a few yards before it looses power and becomes undriveable.

The only obvious clue I've found is that two of the air intakes, where they connect to the black plastic duct, are very wet with oil.

Anyone know what might be causing this?
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#2 heraldsteve

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 07:17 AM

Forgot to mention there are no fault lights on the dashboard and my cheap diagnostic unit shows no error codes.

Things I've tried:
. Air filter is clean, fuel filter is clean and no water in the diesel.
. EGR looks ok and is in the closed position. It springs shut if I operate it manually.
. AMF sensor was changed a while ago but made no difference.
. All vacuum pipes look to be in good order.
. Wynnes injector cleaner mixed in the fuel when it first started made no difference.
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#3 Randombloke

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 08:55 AM

When it's not misfiring it runs like a dream and uses no oil. When it misfires it starts with the odd stutter but eventually it gets worse and it's like it's running on three cylinders with loss of power and lots of black smoke. It's now got so bad it's like it's on two or less cylinders. It will start ok but will only drive a few yards before it looses power and becomes undriveable.

The only obvious clue I've found is that two of the air intakes, where they connect to the black plastic duct, are very wet with oil.

 

Wet with oil, you mean engine oil?

 

I've had this happen twice.

 

Once, on a BX, it was an air leak.

 

On a petrol car, it was an intermittently blocked oil breather pipe.

 

So, check for air leaks in the diesel line, they must be pre diesel pump if there are no diesel leaks, as the air is being sucked in; and for any kinks or other problems in the oil breathers which are forcing oil vapour up into the inlet. A lot of oil breathers go the other side of the air filter so as not to blacken it too quickly. 


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#4 heraldsteve

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 10:21 AM

Thank you Randombloke. I think it must either be engine oil or maybe unburnt diesel being forced up the air intake manifold (not sure that's even possible). I don't think it's fuel starvation as the diesel filter is full, but I will check just in case. Thanks for the ideas 👍

Edited by heraldsteve, 29 August 2018 - 10:22 AM.

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#5 paul.h

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 12:58 PM

You could try unplugging the air mass flow meter to see if it runs better in limp mode. You could also try unplugging the egr valve so it can not open.

Has the fuel filter been replaced with a new one  ?

Does the temperature gauge show normal values as a check the coolant temperature sensor is ok ?

Was the timing belt replaced when due ?

Is the engine oil level ok as a check if it is burning oil due to turbo wear ?



#6 heraldsteve

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 09:43 PM

Hi Paul. I haven't tried unplugging the AMF or EGR so that's something I will try. I haven't replaced the fuel filter but it is very clean. Temp gauge shows normal. Timing belt hasn't been changed but I'm confident it hasn't slipped as I've experienced that before and the symptoms don't tally (I don't think so anyway). I did wonder about the timing but when it's misfired in the past it's always sortrd itself out which it wouldn't do if the belt had slipped. Oil level is fine and it hasn't got a turbo.

I've got it booked in to my local garage next week but I will do a few more checks beforehand as ideally I need it for work. What I particularly don't understand is why two air intakes would be oily but the other two fine. I have an incling it could be a blown head gasket, but then there is no oil in the water or water in the oil and it doesn't overheat and no steam from the exhaust.

Edited by heraldsteve, 29 August 2018 - 09:48 PM.

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#7 paul.h

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:16 PM

If the timing belt is still the original one and 13 years old, you obviously realise you are risking it breaking and you losing the engine. Citroen replacement is 10 years or a mileage if reached sooner - in our 2007 C5 Maintenance and Warranty book it gives for the Berlingo indirect injection diesel, 80k miles or 48k miles if severe conditions. When it goes for the MOT test, if they knew the belt was well overdue they may not want to test it, they have to rev the engine for the emissions test.

 

The air intakes that are wet with oil (or diesel), are these the inlet manifold ? If so, possibly the valves are not seating and you have low compression. If the tappets are hydraulic then maybe it is something to do with these such as the wrong engine oil.



#8 heraldsteve

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 03:01 PM

Thanks Paul. Yes I do realise it is a risk but I also think car manufacturers use it as a scare tactic. I have had a belt fail on a Fiat well within mileage and no damage was caused. I also had a car where the belt tensioner failed and wrecked the valves. I know it is lax of me and I have no excuse ☚ī¸

Yes to inlet manifolds. I thought maybe blown head gasket or slipped timing belt but it starts first time when cold and ticks over perfectly, but it will only drive a few hundred yards before it starts misfiring. I did think maybe a fuel pump fault but that doesn't explain the black smoke (which only appears when it's misfiring). No oil in the water or vica-versa and it doesn't over heat, so very confusing.

Anyway, it's in my local garage today so I will report back when they have diagnosed the fault.

Edited by heraldsteve, 03 September 2018 - 03:02 PM.

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#9 heraldsteve

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 08:54 PM

The garage have diagnosed a faulty MAF sensor combined with a broken air resonator box letting in too much air and confusing the already faulty MAF. The EGR is also showing the occasional blip but he thinks that's due the air intake/MAF problem.

I'm not convinced as I don't see how that would cause two inlet manifolds to oil up, but I've ordered a new MAF. I've temporarily taped up the broken air box resonator while I try and find a replacement. Meanwhile, if anyone is wondering, the taped up inlet box has not improved the situation.

Edited by heraldsteve, 06 September 2018 - 09:01 PM.

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#10 paul.h

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 09:52 AM

Hopefully a new MAF will sort it. Some copy ones might not work as well as Citroen ones so something to be aware of. The garage diagnostic will have given values for the air flow and inlet air temperature which you could use to see how bad the old MAF was and then compare it to ones from the new one. If the air box damage is before the air filter and MAF, then I would suspect it would not be a problem so I would not rush to get another yet.



#11 heraldsteve

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 07:46 PM

Well new MAF fitted and it's made not a scrap of difference and the van is about as much use as a chocolate teapot. I suppose I could use it as a chicken coup 😕

Edited by heraldsteve, 08 September 2018 - 07:47 PM.

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#12 heraldsteve

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 09:28 PM

I disconnected and temporarily blocked off the pipe from the manifold to the EGR and the van ran great! New EGR ordered and hopefully I'll have a working van again before the week is out 😊
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#13 paul.h

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 10:10 PM

Fingers crossed the egr will sort it.



#14 coastline taxis

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 06:24 AM

You need to get the car plugged in to a diagnostic that supports live data. take the van for a run and bring the misfire on whilst the live data is recording. . now comes the fun bit get a cup of tea and a bacon sandwich and go through the live data frame by frame. one of the settings will drop suddenly and then go back to normal and that will be your fault.  experience has show that in most cases its the crankshaft sensor on its way out . but if not then the answer is definitely in live data 


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#15 heraldsteve

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 05:00 PM

The garage supposedly did that and told me it was the AMF - wrong! I've been using the same garage for over 35 years so I kniw they're good mechanics, it's just a confusing fault for dome reason. Anyway, as mentioned above, I have narrowed it down to a faulty EGR and I just need to source a replacement. I think I've located one but at almost ÂŖ200 it's worth almost as much as the van 😅
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#16 paul.h

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 09:07 PM

A lot of people would just blank off the egr rather than fit a new one. It may also be possible to clean the existing one, possibly using something like oven cleaner to get rid of the carbon build up. Its purpose is to recycle exhaust gases to reduce the combustion temperature, this reduces the amount of nitrogen oxides in the exhaust.



#17 coastline taxis

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 03:26 PM

do as paul mentioned and blank it off to see if it cures it. if it does then youve saved ÂŖ200


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#18 heraldsteve

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:24 PM

Hi Paul. I think the problem is the spring has gone as it opens too easily. I don't want to blank it off as it's there to reduce polution. I have ordered a replacement (surprisingly difficult to find the right one) and I'm just waiting for it to be delivered.
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#19 coastline taxis

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 05:33 AM

I dont mean permanently, just to test  it is the egr. if its not that then its ÂŖ200 wasted


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#20 heraldsteve

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 07:35 AM

Hi Coastline. I did that and it ran great, although I didn't take it very far as my temporary blank blew out under exhaust pressure turning it into a fine van that sounded like a tank 😀

I've had difficulty finding a replacement EGR but I have one on its way to me either today or tomorrow.

Edited by heraldsteve, 14 September 2018 - 07:37 AM.

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